The TF2 Unlock Teacup-Storm

News Reader · Post by **News Reader** » May 23rd, 2009, 7:00

The TF2 Unlock Teacup-Storm
I've been out of the TF2 scene for a few months now, as all that focus on achievement-whoring and increasingly technical play turned me off the game somewhat - paranoia I couldn't keep up with The Kids as much as anything else. However, the combination of a masterful marketing effort and the promise of new [...]

Author: Alec Meer
Category: RockPaperShotgun Angry Internet Men team-fortress-2 tf2 Valve
Publish Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 18:06:18 +0000

I've been out of the TF2 scene for a few months now, as all that focus on achievement-whoring and increasingly technical play turned me off the game somewhat - paranoia I couldn't keep up with The Kids as much as anything else. However, the combination of a masterful marketing effort and the promise of new toys that didn't require incredi-skill or soulless grinding to attain lured me back in today. Clearly, I've had a great time - the current free weekend means there's a palpable excitement on the servers, and some of the community maps that have sprung up during my time in the wilderness are pretty spectacular. (There's one with biplanes in the sky and an underground ice cave which was particularly gorgeous). The new weapon unlock system though - not so keen, and you may have caught some folk venting in our other TF2 threads.

Top bit of info to know before your bonce explodes in rage, however - I bounced a quick mail to Valve's very own Saxton Hale, TF2 lead-guy Robin Walker, who reckons there's some sort of bug in the system that's meaning people aren't getting unlocks even after hours of play. "Not at all how it's tuned," apparently. Which is, I think, the first time I've been relieved to hear a game has a bug - it means the problem will get fixed. Read on for my thoughts on the change and word on how it's supposed to work from the goodly Mister Walker.

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Post by **HereComesPete** » May 23rd, 2009, 19:13

Well this would certainly explain the levels of teef rage floating about the internet.

buzzmong · Post by **buzzmong** » May 23rd, 2009, 19:33

I think it's a flawed idea, as mathematically it's fine, but logically once you include people it's not.

I liked working towards the specific acheivements to get the unlocks (well, apart from the Medic, because for the most part, they're improbable), and it gives people a reason to play, it's an obvious reward scheme where you know the tasks you have to do.

Now you just have to play. That's it, just play, and you *might* get something you want.
The reward isn't there as there is nothing to work towards, no longer any goals as such to get the rewards, which means the incentive to play isn't there.

It's also unfairly fair by now being a % (or rng) chance, there's no way you can at least alter the odds to get items you want.

Baliame · Post by **Baliame** » May 23rd, 2009, 20:16

Is this the way we'll find items from now on?

* Like everything else we build, we'll be iterating on this system for a while, and have a lot of features planned. Some of the next things we have planned are:

- Item trading. This is why you're finding duplicates.

- Giving players a method to influence the system so they can work directly toward getting specific items.

- Adding more rare items like the hats.

Post by **Dog Pants** » May 23rd, 2009, 20:19

Achievement systems are really just there for willy waving. In cod4 I didn't really care about the unlocks as much as I did having the boasting rights to some ridiculous feat, and working towards them put variety into my game. Why else would I have carried a garden gnome through th whole of HL2Ep2?

Baliame · Post by **Baliame** » May 23rd, 2009, 20:35

I'm pretty much raging over this update. My brother got an ubersaw only in 2 days of gameplay and well after 2 hours I only have an additional horse of nature.

Mr. Johnson · Post by **Mr. Johnson** » May 23rd, 2009, 20:52

you can get HATS?!
and no one told me?!

buzzmong · Post by **buzzmong** » May 23rd, 2009, 20:58

Baliame wrote:
Is this the way we'll find items from now on?

* Like everything else we build, we'll be iterating on this system for a while, and have a lot of features planned. Some of the next things we have planned are:

- Item trading. This is why you're finding duplicates.

- Giving players a method to influence the system so they can work directly toward getting specific items.

- Adding more rare items like the hats.

Yes, but until they implement it it's a crapshoot.

Gunslinger42 · Post by **Gunslinger42** » May 23rd, 2009, 21:30

It's pretty shitty system, and ultimately it did the exact opposite of what they wanted out of it. They wanted to make it easier for casual players who don't play much to get the new weapons and also to reduce "farming", well what do we have now? We have people who have played 30 hours of teef since it came out and have got either nothing or one or two unlocks they already had - and they're the more "hardcore" players, the "casuals" are going to have a much harder time finding anything considering that they put LESS time into it. As for farming? Well now instead of achievement servers that people join and "farm" silly little challenges/tasks for 30 minutes to get weapons you have servers that people join and then go afk in overnight. It's done the exact opposite of what they were trying for.

And from a players perspective, it's damn frustrating. I played two or three rounds as a spy the night it came out, was on the MVP list in each round and unlocked the first 8 or 9 spy achievements - all legitimately, as it was a pip-ell-in-ee server - and got nothing. Then a new player joins the server, and as soon as he's spawned in the spawn room he gets the cloak and dagger. That crap makes anyone rage.

Post by **TezzRexx** » May 23rd, 2009, 23:18

In short, they failed.

Post by **FatherJack** » May 24th, 2009, 0:06

If it's entirely luck based, surely the longest-playing gamers have the advantage by shortening the odds. Sure there's some who jump on and get something right away, but they must be the minority statistically.

Gunslinger42 · Post by **Gunslinger42** » May 24th, 2009, 0:14

FatherJack wrote:If it's entirely luck based, surely the longest-playing gamers have the advantage by shortening the odds. Sure there's some who jump on and get something right away, but they must be the minority statistically.

In which case they failed the "make it easier for casual players" thing they were trying to do, as well as frustrating the people who are unlucky enough to have the Random Number Gods go against them.

Also, <a href="http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2112/c ... pg">you're not supposed to be there!</a>

I decided to help Lee into my teams spawn area

Post by **FatherJack** » May 24th, 2009, 1:30

Gunslinger42 wrote:In which case they failed the "make it easier for casual players" thing they were trying to do

Well, no - as short-time players no longer have a zero chance of gaining an unlock, but a statistically possible one, albeit less than the hardcore devotees.

The volume of complaints sounds like there's other shit at play though - in that newbies are being disproportionately awarded, which is difficult to confirm or deny. I haven't played for ages, if I logged on and got something awesome, would it be luck or confirmation of a conspiracy?

buzzmong · Post by **buzzmong** » May 24th, 2009, 7:22

I think the online rage comes not from newbies being rewarded, but because the system is unfairly fair.

I'd be a tad pissed, like the RPS bloke, if I'd sunk say, 12 hours over the weekend and did not get one unlock, where some person gets a brand spanking new one within 5 minutes of joining a server.

The best analogy I can come up with involves a 10 sided dice, statistically you should get the number 10 10 times over 100 rolls, but you might get your first 10 rolls as those 10 or you might not actually get any 10s over your rolls.

This new system is statistically fair when it shouldn't be. Luck is frustrating for gamers when they had a system with clear goals and aims, there's nothing to work towards, you just have to play, and that's going to piss people off, as the effort you put into the achievements now goes completely unrewarded.

If they wanted this system to work, they should have included the new weapons and class items in the achievements like they've previously done, but had the drops for the new hats and such.

Gunslinger42 · Post by **Gunslinger42** » May 24th, 2009, 9:18

If they'd made it so there was something that influenced your drops then it would have been better. The newbies would still have this base chance of getting things, but people who played more/better/with a certain class would have had a slightly better chance of getting something/something they wanted

Post by **HereComesPete** » May 24th, 2009, 10:59

As much as I wish they didn't have to do the

I think it would be better from their perspective to do so. By trying to attract casual players they've angered the hardcore types. You'll not get much increase in players like that.

Lee · Post by **Lee** » May 24th, 2009, 11:16

Gunslinger42 wrote:If they'd made it so there was something that influenced your drops then it would have been better. The newbies would still have this base chance of getting things, but people who played more/better/with a certain class would have had a slightly better chance of getting something/something they wanted

That's what they're going to do, they're also introducing item trading.

I like this system myself, I've played 9 hours since the update was released and got 7 unlocks, the huntsman, two cloak and daggers, horse-a-nature, bonk, boxing gloves and medic saw.

I didn't have any unlocks before that and I don't think I ever would have got them, the achievements were too much of a grind for me and not fun at all to aim for. The unlocks I've got have added a bit more variation to teef and made it fun again so I'm really glad they gave me a chance to actually get them without being bored to death in the process.

Baliame · Post by **Baliame** » May 24th, 2009, 11:21

You lucky arse you, I didn't get anything new so far.

By the way, there's also a soldier hat in the game they didn't announce.

Gunslinger42 · Post by **Gunslinger42** » May 24th, 2009, 11:31

Lee wrote:I like this system myself, I've played 9 hours since the update was released and got 7 unlocks, the huntsman, two cloak and daggers, horse-a-nature, bonk, boxing gloves and medic saw.

And i've played 20+ hours now and got two huntsmans and a backburner. The system sucks a dick.

Post by **Dr. kitteny berk** » May 24th, 2009, 11:50

I dunno, I'd be happy to get those if I played TF2, it's your fault for already having unlocks