5punk

Mother nature is having a fucking field day this year.

Haiti, Mexico, the oil spill (well ok that was our fault but oil is natural right?), the iceland volcano, blizzards in europe, russia's on fire, Pakistan is drowning and the peasants are revolting.

Waiting for the frog thing and a bit of plague to go around and we're done!

friznit wrote:Mother nature is having a fucking field day this year.

Haiti, Mexico, the oil spill (well ok that was our fault but oil is natural right?), the iceland volcano, blizzards in europe, russia's on fire, Pakistan is drowning and the peasants are revolting.

Waiting for the frog thing and a bit of plague to go around and we're done!

Aye, she's fucking angry, that's for sure. <a href="http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpres ... Tsunami</a> too.

It's the week before the day after tomorrow.

Damn it! I'll be fucked if I let nature wipe us out. I was hoping for a zombie apocalypse. Anyone got any mutated ebola?

I had an extraordinarily vivid dream about a post apocalyptic society last night.

I assume "the event" was biological (human specific) as the skies were clear, the grass was green, and there were cows in the field. People were living on communal farms for various reasons:

1) Cities uninhabitable due to vast amounts of decaying bodies
2) Canned goods aside, sooner or later you're going to have to start growing your own food
3) Makes sense to stay near the livestock

It was amazing how utterly out of depths we had become. Even though machinery was still in place (in this rather specific case, a dairy), people had no idea how to go about making food. Ok, people knew how to milk a cow - but how do you then make butter? Or cheese? I'm sure people know the basics, but when all you're faced with is the business end of a cow and some buckets, what then?

A society (especially one of much reduced numbers) would be able to exist in relative comfort for a reasonable amount of time using technology from the previous "era", but sooner or later they would have to become self sustaining. In the dream this was a massive problem. The number of natural deaths leapt up - infected wounds, dirty water - as well as a large number of suicides due to people being unable to cope.

This has had me thinking all day about how the human species would be able to overcome any major catastrophic event. I think we would really struggle. Libraries would still be around to plunder for educational books, but just how do you go about setting up a smithy? You've got your communal farm, but where do you get the coal from? You know the basics of how to make a chemical battery, but how do make wire?


I know have an entire post-apocalyptic society sprawling through my head. And I didn't even get on to the bits about rival communities raping and pillaging their neighbours (basic trait of a species trying not to die out, rape and polygamy would be an ugly part of this landscape).

Roman Totale wrote:Ok, people knew how to milk a cow - but how do you then make butter? Or cheese?

I do!

Roman Totale wrote:(basic trait of a species trying not to die out, rape and polygamy would be an ugly part of this landscape).

To be honest, im not sure that I see polygamy as a necessarily bad thing

I've often wondered the same thing. So much stuff we take for granted and yet would have no the first clue how to produce if all skills got wiped out.

Yeah, I've said it for a while that nature is trying its damndest to thin the population taht we are determined to keep alive at all costs.

Medicine, lifestyle, importing foodstuffs, all these things have solved the problems that used to thin out the old and the weak from society. If it was too cold, people would die, If you got too sick, your number was up. If your crops failed, you starved.

Mother Nature is saying there are too many of us. I point to the winter we just had as proof of this, I work in a 999 control room, and it was bedlam out there and some VERY serious injuries occured.

The Shutting Downs wrote:Mother Nature is saying there are too many of us..

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkgDhDa4HHo[/media]

Roman Totale wrote: but just how do you go about setting up a smithy? You've got your communal farm, but where do you get the coal from? You know the basics of how to make a chemical battery, but how do make wire?

Coal? Sod that, requires mining. Charcoal is the way to go as wood is normally plentiful. Furnaces can be and were/are made out of clay bricks. Bellows to put air into the furnace can be done from a variety of sources such as leather or various other materials. A bonus would be to make the furance next to stream or river to mechanise the blowing.

As this is post-catastrophe then ore isn't a worry as there should be plenty of scrap steel to melt down. Once you've got the ability to crudely melt metal, then making molds for tools isn't too much of a chore. They won't be finely crafted, but they should work to an extent.

Obviously bricks and molds can be made from clay, or even clay based soil. Depends on your location really.

No idea on the cheese and butter front though.

buzzmong wrote:No idea on the cheese and butter front though.

I'm good friends with a dairy farmer, he may be able to help with that. I'll supply you guys with dairy goods if one of you can slaughter things for meat for me

When things do go tits up, my main plan is to get my shopping list of useful items and swipe as much as I can.

Hit the Cash and Carry for dried and tinned goods that will last.
Hit the Camping supplies place for stoves, gas bottles and boots.
Hit the Garden centre for seeds and planting supplies.

Who's gonna stop me? the Moron Brigade will be looting DVD players. I want things that will keep me going.

buzzmong wrote: Bellows to put air into the furnace can be done from a variety of sources such as leather

do you know how to make cow into leather?

Butter is made by simply churning/stirring milk. Lots of hardwork and the salty taste of butter comes from human sweat and tears. Added artificially these days to maintain the traditional flavour.

shot2bits wrote:
do you know how to make cow into leather?

Or a charcoal burner? I'd head for the nearest power station and yoink the coal supply to keep me going until I got something else up and running. Useful for making steel too.

This is why you start looking this sort of thing up now.

shot2bits wrote:
do you know how to make cow into leather?

I know how to make a BMW's upholstry into leather, if that counts.

As with any other kind of apocalypse, human beings are going to be your biggest problem. The idiots looting DVD players will some come and eat you once they get hungry. The Road is actually a pretty good portrayal (possibly not accurate, I've never survived an apocalypse) of human interaction in such a situation.

Dog Pants wrote:As with any other kind of apocalypse, human beings are going to be your biggest problem.

This is what really interests me about any sort of survivor scenario. When survival of the species is at stake, the rules of "civilised" society can no longer apply.

Have a look at the Old Testament. Breed as much as possible, do not kill and do not tolerate murderers, respect your elders (i.e. the ones with all the knowledge). To me it has always read like an early species survival guide. It would be interesting to see what religions would flourish after such an event.

I also mentioned earlier about polygamy. It would have to happen in order to keep the gene pool diverse. Even then, imagine how difficult it would be in a close knit community to keep track of family records. Especially after a couple of generations. This is why tribes of old stole the women of their neighbours. I imagine the same would happen post-apocalypse.

Basic survival issues aside, can you imagine how long it would take to get back to the level of "enlightenment" we have now. We all know the Earth orbits the sun, but how many of us could prove that to a 10 year old child brought up in an environment without television, computers, electricity etc? This isn't a question I want answering by the way, I'm just putting forward a scenario. If I wanted to read the wiki on heliocentric models, I'll read the fucking wiki.

There is someone in the states who's LiveJounal I used to read who went through several really good posts on survival. Orientated to the US with regards to weaponry, but the tips on Food, Survival and supplies are very relevant.

Small things that you can do daily that would set you up well enough.