5punk

It's a thing, then. Is it that long since they released 8? I can't remember, but I'm hoping that Win 9 (or Threshold) is to Win 8 as Win 7 was to Fista. The promise of an OS which is cross compatible with my desktop, my phone, and my tablet is pretty interesting. I know Win 8 was supposed to do that, but it didn't really. So it's looking like a desktop OS which can run a mobile apps and presumably a touchscreen GUI which can be overlaid if need be. That's pretty cool. Imagine plugging your phone into your PC and being able to remote into it as a normal OS to configure it. Here's hoping.

This might be the Windows which has to compete with Linux, most likely Steam, for me. It's a long way off for either though.

Dog Pants wrote:it's looking like a desktop OS which can run a mobile apps and presumably a touchscreen GUI which can be overlaid if need be.

I don't like being the voice of doom, but that sounds *exactly* like Win8 was described before it was launched. In fact, it sounds quite close to a description of the most problematic parts of Win8.

That's fair enough, but Win 8 didn't actually achieve that. It's possible that they've realised that and addressed the problems. In fact, I've just had a theory pop into my head.

Microsoft deliberately release a turkey of an OS every couple of iterations. Well, maybe not a turkey, but something they know will cause controversy. Then after that they release a useful version of the same thing. All the nice parts of the previous experimental OS have been proven, the bits people didn't like have been cut out again, and everyone is grateful for a new OS which is vastly better than the last one.

I have a feeling this is going to be Win 8 reversed, ie, desktop is normal operation, Metro 2 is the thing you flick to, as Win 8 should have been.

What's more interesting is the fact one of my work colleagues today read an article out about Dell, who are now "due to customer demand" supplying their PC's with Win7 as the default and Win8 as an optional opt-in.

Which is an exact repeat of WinXP and Fista when big manufacturers offered "downgrades".

buzzmong wrote:I have a feeling this is going to be Win 8 reversed, ie, desktop is normal operation, Metro 2 is the thing you flick to, as Win 8 should have been.

Erm...That *is* what Win8 is. I have Win8. I cant actually remember the last time I wasn't in desktop mode.

Everything I ever read about Win 8 said Metro was the OS GUI and desktop runs over the top of it. Is that not true?

Dog Pants wrote:Everything I ever read about Win 8 said Metro was the OS GUI and desktop runs over the top of it. Is that not true?

Technically, that may be true, but in practice it's completely wrong. You can spend 99.99% of your time in the desktop without any modifications. The only thing you can't change without 3rd party apps is the Start screen, which after spending some time with I prefer in general over the old start menu.

Either way, and as much as I hate the look of Metro (for a desktop - for mobile devices I think it's pretty good), that switching is going to be essential if the OS is going to be viable on both desktop and tablets/phones.

I'm hoping Windows 7 will be the last Windows OS I'll buy.

spoodie wrote:I'm hoping Windows 7 will be the last Windows OS I'll buy.

Going to take a lot to move me away from Windows 7 as it is.

Admittedly I've not used Windows 8 that much, but I've helped enough people get shit working both at work and for friends to know that I can't stand it due to it being such a pain to make it behave like Windows 7/a desktop OS, which is what every desktop and laptop user wants. You couldn't help but end up at the Metro GUI at some point trying to change something, & the usability of it was beyond terrible. That was my experience in probably 5-6 hours max of using it.

I can't imagine how frustrating it is for the average user and if Microsoft haven't learnt from the general feedback, then I doubt Windows 9 will be much different.

Microsoft has added in much more tutorializing which was sorely lacking, though they're not quite there yet.

And honestly, it really doesn't take that much to make metro go away. You just need to install apps to handle music/video/pdfs/etc., just like you always have, and make them the defaults. That's pretty much it. Figuring out how to operate metro isn't hard either, people just freak out unnecessarily when they see it instead of taking the 2 minutes to just ask the internets, because the info is readily available.

deject wrote:That's pretty much it. Figuring out how to operate metro isn't hard either, people just freak out unnecessarily when they see it instead of taking the 2 minutes to just ask the internets, because the info is readily available.

I'm sure someone said something at some point about UI design and that if you have to explain it, it's not very good.

Dr. kitteny berk wrote:

deject wrote:That's pretty much it. Figuring out how to operate metro isn't hard either, people just freak out unnecessarily when they see it instead of taking the 2 minutes to just ask the internets, because the info is readily available.

I'm sure someone said something at some point about UI design and that if you have to explain it, it's not very good.

, hard.

and going even further, you shouldn't really even have to think about it. UI should be intuitive.

The best example I can give would be that a desktop user shouldn't have to snap into Metro FULL SCREEN to view a PDF natively. It should use the same application, but be displayed in a desktop environment with the usual Windowed approach.

Still On Fista crew checking in.

Hipster

Made me laugh more than I think it should have.

TezzRexx wrote:

Dr. kitteny berk wrote:

deject wrote:That's pretty much it. Figuring out how to operate metro isn't hard either, people just freak out unnecessarily when they see it instead of taking the 2 minutes to just ask the internets, because the info is readily available.

I'm sure someone said something at some point about UI design and that if you have to explain it, it's not very good.

, hard.

and going even further, you shouldn't really even have to think about it. UI should be intuitive.

The best example I can give would be that a desktop user shouldn't have to snap into Metro FULL SCREEN to view a PDF natively. It should use the same application, but be displayed in a desktop environment with the usual Windowed approach.

I really don't buy that at all. Sure, you want as much to be as self-explanatory, but let's be real, there are TONS of objects and widgets in any operating system that are just not possible to make completely intuitive. Take context menus, for example. How the hell would anyone know it's there for unless you're told it is, or if you find it accidentally and have the technical acumen to figure it out yourself? It's never explained anywhere and the only reason that most of us know how they work is because we've used them for a decade and then some.

It's an ideal, not reality.

deject wrote:I really don't buy that at all. Sure, you want as much to be as self-explanatory, but let's be real, there are TONS of objects and widgets in any operating system that are just not possible to make completely intuitive. Take context menus, for example. How the hell would anyone know it's there for unless you're told it is, or if you find it accidentally and have the technical acumen to figure it out yourself? It's never explained anywhere and the only reason that most of us know how they work is because we've used them for a decade and then some.

It's an ideal, not reality.

Very this. If you are supposed to be able to sit down in front of a completely new OS and, if it is designed well, be able to use it without explanation then I doubt there are any OS's ever that count as "well designed". Thanks to work I often find myself flitting from Windows Server 2008 to Xp to Server 2003 to Win 7 to (occasionally) Win 2k or Fista. I regularly find myself trying to find options in one system where they are in a different system. The only reason anything in any of them seems "natural" is because that is where you are used to looking for it, because you have been using Windows for years/decades. Win8 has moved a bunch of shit around, sure, but I don't think it inherently makes any less sense than it used to. In fact, now I am used to it being different I actually prefer the Metro style start menu. I now don't need to remember what sub menu of an oddly named control panel option I need to delve into, I just go to the start menu and start typing in what I want to find. Bam, there it is.