Horror: Shit or not? (split from Movie mini reviews)

[Dog Pants]

Horror films are nearly universally shit, so that isn't surprising.

I'd like to draw your attention to the following:

28 Days Later
Alien
Dawn of the Dead
Hellraiser
Invasion of the Body Snatchers
Night of the Living Dead
[REC]
They Live
The Exorcist
The Fly
The Fog
The Ring (or Ringu if you prefer)
The Shining
The Thing

Hmm. From that list it would appear that good horror films have a 50% chance of starting with 'The', and a fair chance of being directed by John Carpenter.

[deject]

I think at least half of the ones you listed are utter shit, and those are the best of the genre. There are only 4 that I actually like, and They Live is good in an ironic way. The rest is terrible.

[Dog Pants]

I think you don't like horror films. That's okay, I don't like outrageous action films like Transformers and Wanted.

[HereComesPete]

I think at least half of the ones you listed are utter shit, and those are the best of the genre. There are only 4 that I actually like, and They Live is good in an ironic way. The rest is terrible.

So which ones do you honestly think are utter shit? Obviously as this is all opinion I'll throw in a NO U! But seriously, I'd love to know.

[Joose]

That's okay, I don't like outrageous action films like Transformers and Wanted.

You have managed to name possibly the two worst action films of recent times there. You could do a hell of a lot better and still call it an "outrageous action film". The Expendables for example, about as ludicrous as it possible to get, but awesome fun.

[Roman Totale]

I've always had a soft, terrified spot for Event Horizon.

[deject]

I think you don't like horror films. That's okay, I don't like outrageous action films like Transformers and Wanted.

Transformers and Wanted are also shit.

So which ones do you honestly think are utter shit? Obviously as this is all opinion I'll throw in a NO U! But seriously, I'd love to know.

Dawn of the Dead
Hellraiser
Invasion of the Body Snatchers
Night of the Living Dead
The Exorcist
The Fly
The Ring

I haven't seen [REC] or The Fog, but neither of them look even remotely interesting.


I guess you could say that I just don't like horror films, but that doesn't mean they aren't shit films that have no redeeming qualities.

[Joose]

I think part of the problem with horror films is that some of them are good because they are just plain good: well filmed, well written, bloody scary, and others are good *because* they are kinda cheesy and stupid but still enjoyable, and others still are good because despite being badly filmed/written they are so damn scary that you dont notice they are, objectively, shit. These three are such a blurry mess thats quite hard to differentiate between them at times.

Also, if you ask two different horror fans to give you thier top 10 horror films, you are highly unlikely to get similar lists. Im quite keen on the genre, but I thought Hellraiser was entirely un-scary and childishly written. The Exorcist may have been revolutionary and terrifying at the time, but it has aged like crazy to the point that I have seen scarier cartoons now. I wouldnt even count The Fly as horror, personally its more "slightly gross sci-fi".

Its made even worse by the fact that there are a lot more horror films that are just plain terrible than there are in some other genres.

[Dog Pants]

All fair points. I chose the action genre and those two films because I was struggling to think of a genre I don't like in order to not appear to be just arguing with Deej. Yeah, objectively a lot of those films are shit I suppose, but then so are great films from other genres. If you're talking about actually scary then the list narrows down to one at best (The Shining).

[Roman Totale]

If you're talking about actually scary then the list narrows down to one at best (The Shining).

Objection! Jaws.

[deject]

I think part of the problem with horror films is that some of them are good because they are just plain good: well filmed, well written, bloody scary, and others are good *because* they are kinda cheesy and stupid but still enjoyable, and others still are good because despite being badly filmed/written they are so damn scary that you dont notice they are, objectively, shit. These three are such a blurry mess thats quite hard to differentiate between them at times.

Also, if you ask two different horror fans to give you thier top 10 horror films, you are highly unlikely to get similar lists. Im quite keen on the genre, but I thought Hellraiser was entirely un-scary and childishly written. The Exorcist may have been revolutionary and terrifying at the time, but it has aged like crazy to the point that I have seen scarier cartoons now. I wouldnt even count The Fly as horror, personally its more "slightly gross sci-fi".

Its made even worse by the fact that there are a lot more horror films that are just plain terrible than there are in some other genres.

Yeah The Shining is an example of a film that is just really good, regardless of genre. Jack's descent into insanity and the cinematography are top notch, up there with the best of the best. Same with 28 Days Later. The bizarre, surreal nature of the opening of the movie combined with the intensity of the fast zombies and fighting for survival are really great.

Conversely, They Live is great because it's a wholly unintentional comedy film. It's not scary in any way at all, but some of the shit in it is just goddamn hilarious.

[Dog Pants]

Is that a horror film or a thriller though? I missed Cube off my list because I don't see it as horror, even though it is very tense and made me nervous.

[Joose]

If you're talking about actually scary then the list narrows down to one at best (The Shining).

Which is the other problem with Horror. What's scary to one person is totally non scary to another. Personally, whilst I quite enjoyed The Shining as a film, I didn't find it scary in the slightest. The Ring on the other hand, despite being far less well made, leaves me unable to sleep properly for days. Things like gore or just plain crazy people don't do anything for me (scares-wise). The things that really freak me out are when things are just a little bit wrong. For example, the bit in The Grudge where she is in the shower and feels someone else's fingers in her hair freaks me the fuck out. The bit in the Ring where they discover that their faces look smudged out in photos gives me chronic willies. Ghosty films where there is a glimpse of a shadow at a window are much worse scares than things like Hellraisers "oooh, this guys got no skin for some reason! look, you can see his meaty bits! oh, now he's getting pulled apart by hooks, bet that smarts! Are you scared yet?"

But that's just me, a friend of mine is unmoved by psychological stuff, and is even fine with gory stuff as long as no one gets anything chopped off. Someone looses an arm, or their head, or even just fingers, and he completely wigs out. Different horses for different courses. I'm not sure there is any other genre where that is the case to the same degree.

[HereComesPete]

Horror is a difficult one. I see it as you can tag horror onto every other genre to make a kind of wide ranging super-genre.

Sci-fi has space ships and lasers. Horror sci-fi has vicious predators and inadequately lit corridors with all blood squirted up the wall. And lasers that inevitably cut someone up who's been restrained.
Survival has people stuck in remote places making tough decisions. Survival horror has hillbillies, bumming and cannibalism. Or zombies, natch.
Drama has lots of high strung, artistic types stuck in big houses. Drama horror has lifts full of blood, dead racist ghosts and snowy hedge mazes.

This to me is why horror is so good, it can adapt any genre and the best horrors help to define that genre.

[deject]

Yeah I didn't find anything about The Ring to be scary at all. In fact, pretty much anything involving vengeful undead or poltergeists or "creepy" children just doesn't scare me. What works for me in a horror context is either super WTF shit (like Jack's manuscript & the blowjob thing in The Shining), intense paranoia, or the feeling of being powerless and on the run.

I guess my basic point is that as a genre, horror films are right there with romcoms in terms of the vast quantity of utter drivel and dogshit. The ratio of good to bad is pathetic.

[Dog Pants]

On reflection I think you're probably right. I love the ones which aren't though (or which are but remain charming).

[spoodie]

I guess my basic point is that as a genre, horror films are right there with romcoms in terms of the vast quantity of utter drivel and dogshit. The ratio of good to bad is pathetic.

I think that might be partly down to the sheer quantity of shit horror films that enter the mainstream. You get it with other genres, like romcoms as you mentioned, but horror suffers from this a lot. I love sci-fi and can almost watch anything if it falls within that category, but if I really dig down there's a lot of films that would even fall below my threshold of tolerance (has anyone tried watching Howard the Duck lately?). And on the other hand there's some gems that don't hit the mainstream at all.

And perhaps horror's just particularly hard to get right.

[FatherJack]

While thinking of favourites of mine to add to the list I came up with a lot of foreign-language titles. While I like horror-comedy (by which I also include over-the-top, ridiculous horror, like Evil Dead) it's creepy stuff that I most favour, and while exactly what that is varies wildly, perhaps the element of having to follow the dialogue via subtitles makes me more susceptible to it - as well as the inherent odd-ness of it depicting a similar but slightly different "ordinariness" before the shit starts to happen - I'm almost on edge before it starts.

I'm thinking of The Ring, A Tale of Two Sisters, Dark Water, Let the Right One In, The Grudge and One Missed Call (I'm using the Western names) - all of which have been remade in the west, though I choose not to seek out the remakes as I think they will lose that edge I describe above.

The first Friday 13th, Halloween, Elm Street, House and Amityville are all watchable, but the sequels rapidly descend into arse. I count Alien as my favourite of the series.

Exorcist and Poltergeist haven't aged very well, but did scare me when they were newer.

I despise gore done for gore's sake, like with Hostel or Saw, but like it when it's coupled with a bit of comedy like Ichi the Killer or Braindead.

[Dog Pants]

I despise gore done for gore's sake, like with Hostel or Saw, but like it when it's coupled with a bit of comedy like Ichi the Killer or Braindead.

I agree, but I'd say Hostel and Saw (I've seen half of the former and hated it, never had any interest in the latter) are more what they call torture porn. It's just gratuitous for the sake of being gratuitous. Braindead, Bad Taste, and even Dawn of the Dead, are more slapstick in their violence. Romero stated (I seem to remember) about Dawn of the Dead that they deliberately made the blood vivid red, unnaturally so, to the point where it was more of a substitute for custard than actual gore.

[Mr. Johnson]

For me it's mostly about the atmosphere more than anything, films like mulholland drive (admittedly, not so much but it has it's moments) and lost highway have a way of making me feel uncomfortable. Another one that springs to mind is the mothman prophecies, It's not a particularly scary film but there is a bit where Richard Gere receives a phone call in a dark motel room and afterwards slams a cabinet or a door or something shut in anger and for a very brief moment there appears a face in a mirror on the door, you don't know if it's really there or not because you can only see it for about a split second, but it freaked me right the fuck out. I think the story wasn't that good otherwise but I can't really remember. Anyway it's things like these, messing with the viewers' mind, making you feel very uncomfortable in a particular way that work best.
Most slasher films are perfectly enjoyable but aren't in the least bit scary, and I've seen so many over the years I can predict the whole pretty accurately (though I refrain from doing before I become one those guys).
And the "torture porn" genre? I seriously hope the hype dies down real soon. That said, the first saw movie isn't that bad even if the ending is the most retarded thing I've seen in long time.