SLA House Rules
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Grimmie
- Master of Soviet Propaganda
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Yeah, that's the biggest pain when shooting multiple targets.
I can see that the bringing to bare on a new target would make sense, in that you have to move the gun, before you actually aim and align sights.
At the same time, being only able to take out one person a round does render the rifle skill almost useless in mass battles!
I can see that the bringing to bare on a new target would make sense, in that you have to move the gun, before you actually aim and align sights.
At the same time, being only able to take out one person a round does render the rifle skill almost useless in mass battles!
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HereComesPete
- Throbbing Cupcake
- Posts: 10249
- Joined: February 17th, 2007, 23:05
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Possibly have a bring to bear, then additional targets add a cumulative negative dex mod per target after two/three dependent on distance between targets? Only dropping sights when everything is dead or you have a stoppage, given the ability to change mags without looking away from the sight is commonplace now I imagine future dystopian world abilities to be better.
As I see it currently it's more like getting into a nice stance to shoot one guy, then downing the rifle and then starting to re-aim from there again. Whereas you'd expect something like a burst of fire at a target until it drops then switch quickly to the next without looking away or moving much at all to maintain the stance.
As I see it currently it's more like getting into a nice stance to shoot one guy, then downing the rifle and then starting to re-aim from there again. Whereas you'd expect something like a burst of fire at a target until it drops then switch quickly to the next without looking away or moving much at all to maintain the stance.
Rules changes being considered for next BPN:
Suppressive fire (spraying): Basing the number of hits on how far apart the targets are, for example;
<5m - 1 hit every 2 points (11, 13, 15, 17 etc)
6-10m - 1 hit every 3 points (11, 14, 17, 20 etc)
11-20m - 1 hit every 4 points (11, 15, 19, 23 etc)
Seems more realistic than just getting a negative modifier to hit based on distance. Additional rounds can roll over onto the same target again on double those numbers, although that might just make things more complicated. Someone with a Power Reaper hosing a couple of guys in a doorway should be able to get more than one hit on them though. Problem then, though, is that it becomes more effective to spray at a single target than to auto fire. However, I'm also considering changing auto fire to be easier to hit with multiple rounds at one target. Unless you can't handle the recoil surely it shouldn't be that much harder? I'm considering making it 1 for 1 (ie, rounds hit on every point above 10). That might be a bit OP though.
Media: I wrote some rules up regarding how different skills affect reactions to your camera footage and interviews in a media BPN. However, I've lost them. If anyone remembers where I wrote them (might have been on the forum) let me know, it'll save me some effort.
Any other suggestions after the last combat heavy BPN?
Suppressive fire (spraying): Basing the number of hits on how far apart the targets are, for example;
<5m - 1 hit every 2 points (11, 13, 15, 17 etc)
6-10m - 1 hit every 3 points (11, 14, 17, 20 etc)
11-20m - 1 hit every 4 points (11, 15, 19, 23 etc)
Seems more realistic than just getting a negative modifier to hit based on distance. Additional rounds can roll over onto the same target again on double those numbers, although that might just make things more complicated. Someone with a Power Reaper hosing a couple of guys in a doorway should be able to get more than one hit on them though. Problem then, though, is that it becomes more effective to spray at a single target than to auto fire. However, I'm also considering changing auto fire to be easier to hit with multiple rounds at one target. Unless you can't handle the recoil surely it shouldn't be that much harder? I'm considering making it 1 for 1 (ie, rounds hit on every point above 10). That might be a bit OP though.
Media: I wrote some rules up regarding how different skills affect reactions to your camera footage and interviews in a media BPN. However, I've lost them. If anyone remembers where I wrote them (might have been on the forum) let me know, it'll save me some effort.
Any other suggestions after the last combat heavy BPN?
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deject
- Berk
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I think that was rather good for a shootan' BPN. There was some incredibly tense moments, like when Kt'rr just barged in the door. I made the decision to give them another target so he wouldn't be out there to soak all the bullets up. I did kill half of those bastards in the conference room though.
I think your suppressive fire changes make sense, the farther away the harder it is to hit when you're spraying bullets. I say we try it for next time we have big combat.
I think your suppressive fire changes make sense, the farther away the harder it is to hit when you're spraying bullets. I say we try it for next time we have big combat.
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HereComesPete
- Throbbing Cupcake
- Posts: 10249
- Joined: February 17th, 2007, 23:05
- Location: The maleboge
Maybe if you up it to <5 is 3, 6-10 is 4 and 11-20 is 5 and then drop single target auto in at 2?
Possibly even split the last group to 11-15 5, 15+ 6
I realise that the 5 and above is high, but at that distance apart even spraying lots of metal around you'd lucky to hit anyone. It would need some heavy fire power and some excellent skills.
And just to complicate further, maybe something like warbastards or power reapers have a modifier that when used to hose an area the weight of fire mods the suppresive fire rules so its not 1,2,3,4,5 or 2,3,4,5,6 its 1,2,2,3,4 or similar.
Also I noticed that technically someone standing at 5 metres isn't covered in your rules.
Possibly even split the last group to 11-15 5, 15+ 6
I realise that the 5 and above is high, but at that distance apart even spraying lots of metal around you'd lucky to hit anyone. It would need some heavy fire power and some excellent skills.
And just to complicate further, maybe something like warbastards or power reapers have a modifier that when used to hose an area the weight of fire mods the suppresive fire rules so its not 1,2,3,4,5 or 2,3,4,5,6 its 1,2,2,3,4 or similar.
Also I noticed that technically someone standing at 5 metres isn't covered in your rules.
Yeah, fair point Pete. The rules kind of take rate of fire into account by giving you a bonus to hit, which would go some way to reducing the difficulty. I could also give the firer bonuses for every target in the area, after all it's easier to hit someone in a 10m area when there's 50 people in it than if there's only 2.
Mnnnng. Added a hardware section to the wiki and started populating it with guns. Got the main rule book done so far, and I'll be adding pictures where available (and maybe making them up where not). I'm now utterly gun spazzed.
This is in preperation for a revamped Hardware catalogue, so any suggestions are welcome.
This is in preperation for a revamped Hardware catalogue, so any suggestions are welcome.
Some rules that came out of this:
First up, aiming. I've always played it that you get any aims at a target for as long as you shoot at them. So if you aim for +3, you get that +3 for every subsequent shot at that target. However, the rules aren't clear, and it would make equal sense for you to lose the aims after each shot. I wouldn't make it a wild shot again, just no modifiers. Realistically you would have to aim again when firing due to recoil shifting your position, but I've never done it that way before. What do you guys think?
Secondly, the new auto rules were used last night. I noticed that nobody had realised I'd written them, despite posting here (more likely forgot I suspect). I think they worked quite well, just maybe need a bit of tweaking in the specific numbers. Once you work out what needs doing they're not that complicated.
First up, aiming. I've always played it that you get any aims at a target for as long as you shoot at them. So if you aim for +3, you get that +3 for every subsequent shot at that target. However, the rules aren't clear, and it would make equal sense for you to lose the aims after each shot. I wouldn't make it a wild shot again, just no modifiers. Realistically you would have to aim again when firing due to recoil shifting your position, but I've never done it that way before. What do you guys think?
Secondly, the new auto rules were used last night. I noticed that nobody had realised I'd written them, despite posting here (more likely forgot I suspect). I think they worked quite well, just maybe need a bit of tweaking in the specific numbers. Once you work out what needs doing they're not that complicated.
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Joose
- Turret
- Posts: 8090
- Joined: October 13th, 2004, 14:13
- Location: The house of Un-Earthly horrors
Makes sense to me. Essentially, each time you fire you reset to just the one aim that makes it not a wild shot, yes?Dog Pants wrote:Some rules that came out of this:
First up, aiming. I've always played it that you get any aims at a target for as long as you shoot at them. So if you aim for +3, you get that +3 for every subsequent shot at that target. However, the rules aren't clear, and it would make equal sense for you to lose the aims after each shot. I wouldn't make it a wild shot again, just no modifiers. Realistically you would have to aim again when firing due to recoil shifting your position, but I've never done it that way before. What do you guys think?
Secondly, the new auto rules were used last night. I noticed that nobody had realised I'd written them, despite posting here (more likely forgot I suspect). I think they worked quite well, just maybe need a bit of tweaking in the specific numbers. Once you work out what needs doing they're not that complicated.
I only got confused because I didn't know they were there. They actually make a lot of sense.Oh that was the other thing. I was thinking of changing scopes etc. At the moment they're dependent on the range of the weapon, which seems silly. Surely they'd be better just having their own ranges? I could put in a bunch of sights (4x, 8x, 12x, red dot, laser) which would offer a bonus at different ranges.
Aiming
I think I'm going to go with Deject's way for the aims. Despite using my way for 15 years, I never questioned it because I assumed it was right. However, the rules are ambiguous. So aims only apply for one shot, after that you just get your one aim to not be a wild shot, ie with no modifiers. I prefer this for a few reasons: Firstly it's more realistic, any marksman is trained to re-aim after every shot, at least partly because the recoil wil kick your aim out anyway. Secondly, it encourages getting it right first time, which I think fits the sniper ethos. Thirdly, it's too easy to shoot things anyway.
Sniping
At long ranges there are a lot more factors to take into account. Snipers have a lot of considerations, and to take those extreme range shots will need to do some preparation to have the greatest chance of hitting their target. Bear in mind that these rules won't affect combat most of the time, it's really designed for very long range, aimed shots.
* Bullet Drop
A round will always fall at the same speed, the only factor is how far it gets before it lands. Snipers need to account for the round falling over long distances and aim high. This can be easily done by adjusting sights to the correct range, which raises them in compensation. Spending a phase setting sights for shots at long or extreme range will add +1 to the roll.
* Wind
Not all shots will be affected by wind, but considering that most shots over long range will be outdoors due to the distance involved, it's fair to say most will be. Shooters need to adjust their aim against the wind in order for it to take the round onto their target. This translates to between a 0 and -3 (or more in exceptional circumstances) modifier depending on wind strength, with an average on Mort of -2 at long range. Wind modifiers are doubled at extreme range. Wind can be compensated to some extent by measuring wind speed in advance, and shooters taking a wind measurement before their shot can reduce the wind penalty by half. Alternatively the shooter can make a marksmanship roll to guess the wind. A successful roll reduces the modifier by 1, and a roll over 20 reduces it by 2.
Sights
Currently the game has:
Laser painter
1000m scope
3000m scope
5000m scope
8000m scope
I propose to expand this and change the modifiers to:
Laser Painters - +1 up to 25m or up to 150m with scope, modifier stands with wild shots up to 25m
* CAF Red - 5c, visible red light
* CAF Green - 8c, visible green light, up to 175m with scope
* FEN IR - 20c, variable settings for: red visible laser, IR laser, white light torch, IR torch, red dot sight, or any combination.
* FEN UV - 20c, variable settings for: red visible laser, UV laser, white light torch, UV torch, red dot sight, or any combination.
Red dot sights - +1 up to effective range for non-wild shots.
* 1x reflex - 5c, up to 25m
* 1.5x scope - 8c, up to 35m
* 4x scope - 12c, up to 100m
* 6x scope - 18c, up to 150m
Telescopic sights - Extends all ranges by magnification factor. Telescopic sights receive a -1 to use at point blank range, which is also extended by half the magnification factor.
* 4x scope - 10c, minimum range 10m
* 8x scope - 20c, minimum range 20m
* 12x scope - 40c, minimum range 30m
I think I'm going to go with Deject's way for the aims. Despite using my way for 15 years, I never questioned it because I assumed it was right. However, the rules are ambiguous. So aims only apply for one shot, after that you just get your one aim to not be a wild shot, ie with no modifiers. I prefer this for a few reasons: Firstly it's more realistic, any marksman is trained to re-aim after every shot, at least partly because the recoil wil kick your aim out anyway. Secondly, it encourages getting it right first time, which I think fits the sniper ethos. Thirdly, it's too easy to shoot things anyway.
Sniping
At long ranges there are a lot more factors to take into account. Snipers have a lot of considerations, and to take those extreme range shots will need to do some preparation to have the greatest chance of hitting their target. Bear in mind that these rules won't affect combat most of the time, it's really designed for very long range, aimed shots.
* Bullet Drop
A round will always fall at the same speed, the only factor is how far it gets before it lands. Snipers need to account for the round falling over long distances and aim high. This can be easily done by adjusting sights to the correct range, which raises them in compensation. Spending a phase setting sights for shots at long or extreme range will add +1 to the roll.
* Wind
Not all shots will be affected by wind, but considering that most shots over long range will be outdoors due to the distance involved, it's fair to say most will be. Shooters need to adjust their aim against the wind in order for it to take the round onto their target. This translates to between a 0 and -3 (or more in exceptional circumstances) modifier depending on wind strength, with an average on Mort of -2 at long range. Wind modifiers are doubled at extreme range. Wind can be compensated to some extent by measuring wind speed in advance, and shooters taking a wind measurement before their shot can reduce the wind penalty by half. Alternatively the shooter can make a marksmanship roll to guess the wind. A successful roll reduces the modifier by 1, and a roll over 20 reduces it by 2.
Sights
Currently the game has:
Laser painter
1000m scope
3000m scope
5000m scope
8000m scope
I propose to expand this and change the modifiers to:
Laser Painters - +1 up to 25m or up to 150m with scope, modifier stands with wild shots up to 25m
* CAF Red - 5c, visible red light
* CAF Green - 8c, visible green light, up to 175m with scope
* FEN IR - 20c, variable settings for: red visible laser, IR laser, white light torch, IR torch, red dot sight, or any combination.
* FEN UV - 20c, variable settings for: red visible laser, UV laser, white light torch, UV torch, red dot sight, or any combination.
Red dot sights - +1 up to effective range for non-wild shots.
* 1x reflex - 5c, up to 25m
* 1.5x scope - 8c, up to 35m
* 4x scope - 12c, up to 100m
* 6x scope - 18c, up to 150m
Telescopic sights - Extends all ranges by magnification factor. Telescopic sights receive a -1 to use at point blank range, which is also extended by half the magnification factor.
* 4x scope - 10c, minimum range 10m
* 8x scope - 20c, minimum range 20m
* 12x scope - 40c, minimum range 30m